Change Is The Only Constant feat. Pooja Talreja ’08

[00:00]Maya: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot Series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.

On today's episode of Owl Have You Know, we catch up with a Full-Time MBA who embraces change as a way of life. Pooja Talreja traveled from the opposite side of the globe for an education. Her journey to find true fulfillment in her career led her to Rice, which changed the trajectory of her life.

She talks with us about her upbringing, her career pivot, and how the gift of mentorship has shaped her, and how now she is able to pay it forward.

Welcome to Owl Have You Know. I'm your host, Maya Pomroy. Pooja, thank you for being on the program today.

[00:47]Pooja: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[00:49]Maya: We are very excited as well. So, you are the senior vice president of people at Ironclad Environmental Solutions. You've got 15 years of experience, guiding global teams across the oil and gas industry. And currently, you've pivoted from an accounting background to HR. So, we're going to get into that. You also grew up in Dubai and decided to come to the States for your education. So, tell me about what your childhood was like in Dubai.

[01:24]Pooja: Born and raised there, Dubai, I don't know if you know this, has a very big Indian community. So, it was home away from home. Summers were in India with grandparents. Growing up was with an Indian community, English speaking, so the move to the U.S. wasn't that tough. I would call it a very sheltered upbringing, to be honest.

[01:44]Maya: Could you describe that? Because I've never been to Dubai. I mean, it's on my list, but I've never been. So, curious about your thoughts on that.

[01:52]Pooja: Middle class families in Dubai can afford a nanny. That's something that is unheard of here. We grew up with a live-in nanny. Both my parents worked and we were lower to middle class, right? So, when I say sheltered, we had an excellent support system at home with family, with friends, strong sense of community. Moving to the U.S. was actually the hardest thing I've done because it's leaving that community behind and then building your life from the ground up. And frankly, as a mom, I want that for my kids.

[02:25]Maya: Sure.

[02:25]Pooja: As hard as it is to let your kids go fly, it's what helped me learn so much about myself. It's just… it was an amazing experience.

[02:34]Maya: So, what are some of the things that you've learned?

[02:38]Pooja: Oh, my gosh. I used to think of myself as a very shy person. Confidence was always an issue, growing up. But moving here, I learned that, when put in a tough situation, I'm going to try and figure it out, right? I'm a figure-it-outer. I just like to get shit done.

[02:56]Maya: Problem solver.

[02:57]Pooja: Problem solver. That, I didn't know I had it in me till I was put in this situation to do that. And I think that goes for a lot of women, in general. I don't think we give ourselves enough credit. We don't always come into situations with full confidence. But the more we have that experience of, “I got this,” that builds competence, right? And that builds your confidence, in turn.

[03:20]Maya: Let's talk about that, of being a woman, growing up in Dubai, and then coming to the United States. Culturally, from India to Dubai is a shift, but I think from India to Dubai to the U.S. is even a greater shift.

[03:37]Pooja: I'll never forget that plane ride. I cried myself to sleep. I was by myself.

[03:42]Maya: How old were you?

[03:45]Pooja: 20? It was in the middle of college because I transferred schools from Dubai to Florida. But I didn't think I was going to cry. I thought I was ready to be on my own.

[03:57]Maya: And you went to Florida Atlantic University. That's where you got your BBA in accounting.

[03:59]Pooja: That's where I got my bachelor's in accounting. And even though I had a couple of friends that were from Dubai that were at FAU, leaving your family and friends behind, and I'd been in Dubai my whole life, it just taught me resilience. It taught me grit. It taught me, even though I may, in the moment, think I don't have it, I can do it.

[04:20]Maya: So, you got off the plane. Did you just go to the dorm? How did that go?

[04:26]Pooja: So, I had a girlfriend that had an off-campus apartment. I just met her. She walked me around the school. I hadn't even toured the university, but I just applied and I transferred. So, it was my first time visiting. And again, right, very similar to growing up in Dubai, FAU has a really small Indian community. So, I don't know what it is. We just tend to gravitate towards each other.

[04:51]Maya: I think that's normal of everybody. We try to unlearn that, but I think that's just a natural instinct.

[04:57]Pooja: So true. Like minds and everything, right? But yeah, once I got over the fact that, “Hey, I'm here,” I have nobody to fall back on, my support system looks nothing like what it did back home, it was go-time.

[05:10]Maya: What made you want to come to the States?

[05:12]Pooja: Education, opportunity. And I will say, today, the opportunities in Dubai are very different for women. Growing up, there was one university. It was very new when I was ready to go to college. So, I had friends around me that were either moving back home to India or they were going to different schools in Europe or they were coming to the United States. Honestly, I liked what the U.S. offered in terms of opportunity, right? The sky's the limit. And at the time, I just thought, “I'm gonna go give it a shot.”

[05:43]Maya: Love that. That's true for so many that come to the U.S. for their education.

[05:50]Pooja: I drank the Kool-Aid, and here I am, my gosh, 24 years later.

[05:54]Maya: You know, that's also something to celebrate, 24 years. So, what made you interested in accounting? Was that something that was a family background? Were your parents in accounting? Or is that just something that, you know, you loved math and you gravitated towards?

[06:09]Pooja: It was my parents saying, “Accounting will give you stability in your career. So, go do that, or some sort of engineering degree or some kind of doctor,” which I sucked at science. Numbers came easily, so I picked that, right? There's a big difference in studying accounting and working in accounting, night and day.

[06:31]Maya: What's the difference?

[06:33]Pooja: The work, at least when I worked for CPA firms, was very redundant, right? It was the same work, checking other people's numbers, ticking and tying. Honestly, for me, it didn't offer the variety that now I know that HR does. Every day looks very different in HR. For accounting, it's predictable, right? You know what the day is going to bring, which wasn't for me. That just was not my calling.

[07:00]Maya: Yeah. Once you graduated with your BBA in accounting and you dipped your toe into the accounting sea, how long did it take you to realize that, “Maybe this is not really what I want to do with the rest of my life and it's time for me to shift?”

[07:18]Pooja: I would say three to four years. I mean, I knew initially, but I kept thinking it's going to get better, right?

[07:26]Maya: Don't we all?

[07:27]Pooja: It's not them. It's me. I'm good at this. Well, why can't I love it? In my mind, I couldn't make that distinction between having the skills and the ability, but also not having the passion for it, right?

[07:42]Maya: Yeah.

[07:42]Pooja: So, I actually quit my job at the public accounting firm that I was at. It's a local firm here in Houston. Literally, weeks after they promoted me.

[07:54]Maya: How’d that go?

[07:55]Pooja: You know, I will never forget the day – I walk into the partner's office and I said, “You have no idea how much I appreciate you taking a chance on me. You're giving me a larger role, a bigger responsibility, but I hate the job.”

[08:08]Maya: Oh, did you do that? Did you say, “I hate my job?”

[08:10]Pooja: I did. And, you know, he was… he's such an amazing person. He was open, always, to have that dialogue. And I think they saw, right, that I wasn't loving the work. So, I just told him, I said, “Look, I want to go back to school. I don't know what I will do with my life when I'm grown up, but it's not accounting, right? Being in your seat, bringing in business, it's all about the numbers just was not for me.” And honestly, he got it. He was supportive, right? Did they try and throw more money at me? Yes, but I think the person in him got that I was looking for something entirely different.

[08:45]Maya: Right. So, what year was this?

[08:48]Pooja: Oh, my gosh. 2006 was when I applied to Rice. So, it had to have been 2006, actually, because it was earlier that year and I applied in the same year, so ‘06.

[08:58]Maya: So, why did you decide… was it location, because you were in Houston? Is that why you applied to Rice Business?

[09:04]Pooja: Yep, it was the only school that I applied to. And I had friends that had either graduated from Rice or were still going there. So, there was, you know, an existing community, and they just spoke so highly of the program and everything that it exposed them to and everything that they learned, the professors, their cohorts. I just knew intuitively that this needs to be my next move.

[09:28]Maya: So, walk me through when you came on campus and you came to the business school for the first time. What did you think?

[09:35]Pooja: The imposter syndrome is so real, right? Like, how am I here? And the campus is so beautiful. And you have all of these extremely intelligent people. Frankly, I just remember feeling very grateful, right? Looking back at the decision to even move to the U.S. and complete my degree here and then having the courage to quit a very stable job, right, as they wanted to move me up, I was like, “Yeah, no thanks,” right? That just…

[10:08]Maya: Thanks, but no.

[10:09]Pooja: Thanks, but I need to try something for me. And frankly, having a spouse that was like, “Yeah, go back to school, quit your job,” not everybody has that, right? So, it was not lost on me that I was in a position of being set up for success and it was up to me to take that and make the best of it. But the early days were extremely intimidating. They have you present right off the bat, week one, orientation, and they record you, which is painful to see yourself in that recording. You're like, “I don't sound like me. I don't look like me. This is not okay.”

And then, of course, there was the whole airplane game. I don't know if y'all did that, but it was part of our initiation, which we didn't know at the time. But it's a game that's set up to essentially rag on us, right, just to make fun. And we took it very seriously, as first-years, that we need to win this game. It's an all day thing.

[11:07]Maya: No, we didn't play this game.

[11:09]Pooja: Oh, my god.

[11:10]Maya: I'm, kind of, disappointed. You have to tell me about the airplane game.

[11:12]Pooja: So, I don't remember exactly everything we did, but it's many series of games. You're set up in teams with your other first year cohorts. And the goal is to win every game, right? And then whoever wins the most gets the most points. Little did we know that it was… some of it was, like, childish, almost. Building an airplane, how far does it go? And we would get very technical with it, right? Like, put our engineering brains that I didn't even have. How do we do this? We just thought it was part of our success at school, which, no, no, it was all planned by second-years who were watching the fun at our expense. But then, you know, we got to... so, year two, we were like airplane game, let's make this happen.

[11:54]Maya: So, who won?

[11:56]Pooja: There is no winning, that's the whole thing. That was the whole thing. You're thinking, “Oh, my god, I'm in business school. It's all about winning.” No, that was the thing.

[12:05]Maya: It's all about losing. It's all about failing. That's a thread that goes through a lot of conversations, you know, with MBAs that I've had, is that you've got to learn how to fail because you can't succeed until you learn how to fail. Looking back, the amount of growth, I mean, it's been a little while since you graduated, but the amount of growth that you have in such a short period of time is really extraordinary.

[12:26]Pooja: It's remarkable. I remember telling my husband, “You need to enroll, you need to apply, you need to do this because this is game-changing stuff.” I was just so excited for the duration of those two years, you know. And you build lifelong friendships, including the networking with the professors and the Partios, all of it, right?

[12:49]Maya: Yes.

[12:49]Pooja: I look back at it, and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

[12:52]Maya: I told my husband the same thing. I was like, “You should really do this.” And he was like, “I'm not smart like you,” like, “Okay.”

[13:00]Pooja: It's funny how people think going back to school you have to be smart. For me, it's the love of learning, right? For me, it's learning about yourself, the education, the exposure to so many different courses and see what sticks. That was what it was about.

[13:14]Maya: And about taking a risk. Just the same way that you got on that airplane, you know, you got on that airplane, you took a risk, you came here. So, was it while you were at Rice that HR spoke to you, or people, the idea of inspiring and leading people?

[13:31]Pooja: 100%. It was one of the early classes, Organizational Behavior, with Professor Brent Smith. I went to him and I said, “How do I do this? I need to do these things we're learning in these case studies with Southwest and everything that you talk about, motivating people, leading people, but impacting the business through that.” And it was very simple, what he said, “Have you considered HR?” And I said, “No, I always thought my next move would be adjacent to accounting like finance or, maybe, something in operations. HR was not even on my radar.”

And that's why Brent, and Rice, overall, was such a big part of where I landed with my career because it taught me that you can be good at something and so find your calling. I didn't know that the two existed together.

[14:20]Maya: Well, that's what they say. They say, when you find something that you love to do, then it's not work.

[14:26]Pooja: Yep.

[14:26]Maya: And that's what I think the Holy Grail is, is to find what it is that you love to do that just comes so naturally to you, that you're like, “Wait a second, this is my job? Like, this is the best thing ever. How'd that happen?” And it takes people a little bit of time to get there.

[14:41]Pooja: For me, I was in my 30s, right? Friends around me were having kids, and here I was, back to school and so happy just to do it.

[14:51]Maya: So, Brent Smith was a very integral part of your transition. Have you talked to him since? Do you guys keep in touch?

[14:59]Pooja: We did, for a long time. I'll say, in the last three to four years, I will take full responsibility for the fact that I haven't really reached out to him.

[15:09]Maya: Well, you've been busy. You've had things to do.

[15:13]Pooja: Just a little. But I did. I had frequent lunches with him. I would talk to him about anything and everything. I've even been into, like, some of his classes because, you know, we can audit, right? In fact, I really want to do that again. It's just the coolest thing to be able to sit in there and hear the conversations that are happening, the things that he teaches. You always pick up on something new, no matter how many times you've been there. And he does these amazing leadership courses that…

[15:39]Maya: Executive leadership.

[15:41]Pooja: That's my calling. Like, that's going to be my next step.

[15:44]Maya: Well, you're going to have to, like, carve out that time because we don't ever have any sort of time that's just, like, sitting around. You know, it always, sort of, gets filled up with something. Always gets filled up.

[15:53]Pooja: You have to make the time. Well, I did just graduate, actually, a couple of weeks back, I was in the Wharton's program for CHRO.

[16:00]Maya: Oh, congratulations!

[16:02]Pooja: Thank you. So, that has taken 12 months. It was a great program, but yes, I'm going back to Rice, for sure.

[16:08]Maya: Well, see, that's the whole thing, is that lifelong learning, as you mentioned, is key. And I'm actually auditing a class in the fall at Rice as well.

[16:15]Pooja: Which one?

[16:17]Maya: Portfolio management. And I had been thinking about it and thinking about it. And finally, I was like, “You know.” And it was… it's really funny because, you know, you graduate, you know, with an Executive MBA. And then I will tell you that, writing the email to the professor and asking, because you have to ask for permission, and I was so nervous. And my husband was like, “Why are you so scared of this?” I was like, “Well, what if he says no?”

[16:41]Pooja: Yep. I've been there.

[16:42]Maya: What if he says, I was like, “Why, why on earth?” But that's still something that you struggle with. And I'm like, “All right, I'm going to do this.” And I pushed that. And, of course, he was kindest and was like, “Absolutely looking forward to seeing you in class.” So, I'm auditing a class in the fall. And there's so many benefits to being a part of Rice and that opportunity to always be welcome to come back, and if you see that you have some gaps, or even if you want to pivot and you've already gone through the program, you have this opportunity to continue to grow and learn. And one of the things that I'm most looking forward to is, obviously, the lecture, but also, learning from the students that I'm going to be within that same room because you learn so much from each other.

[17:26]Pooja: I couldn't agree more. I could not agree more. I think that's why cohorts tend to become so close, right? The professor is teaching you so many different things, but to your point, there's equal amount of learning from the people that's sitting in that class and their experiences and failures and all of that. It's just an overall fantastic experience. And I miss it. I love being in a classroom.

[17:49]Maya: Yeah, that's something that you want to pass down to your kids and future generations. And I think that Rice is a place that you, kind of, never really want to leave.

[18:00]Pooja: I agree. I'm right there with you.

[18:04]Maya: So, tell me about your current position and your current role, because you went from leading the HR division to leading all of HR for the entire company. So, tell me what you're doing now.

[18:19]Pooja: So, let me, before I go into that, rewind three and a half years. I'd started the division HR leader with a company called WillScot Mobile Mini, publicly traded, WillScot had just acquired Mobile Mini. And as part of the interview, the head of the division had said to me, “Hey, it's very likely that, in a year or two, we're going to get sold.” He was very honest about it. “Could mean you're either going to have to go look for something else or you could be leading the department.”

[18:47]Maya: Those are very wide.

[18:49]Pooja: Extreme, very extreme options. And at the time, my other option was to go work for a hospital system, more stable, one of the biggest hospital systems here. And I picked this one. I think the pattern with my life is I always pick the riskier one, the riskier move.

[19:07]Maya: Love that.

[19:08]Pooja: Honestly, for me, it was about the people, too, right? I just felt like, “Go big or go home,” in a way. But also, I love the group of individuals and leaders that had interviewed me. We just got on right off the bat. So, a year and a half into that position, my CEO, now CEO, at the time, division lead calls me and says, “Okay, it's time. We're going to start presenting to different strategic companies and PE firms. It's time to sell.” Because he had gotten us to that point with Scot Mobile Mini. And so, as a division leadership team, we would go to the same conference room in Bank of America, every morning with the same breakfast, same people, same presentation. Eventually, we were bought by Kinderhook. That's the New York-based private equity firm that currently owns us.

And each of the division heads essentially got promoted, right, into being now VPs and leaders of our own departments. And we all had to build a function from scratch. And this was in October of ‘22. Since then, we've had two acquisitions. I can't even tell you how many reorganizations, restructuring, people that have left the organization, both voluntarily, involuntarily, new additions. Change is the only constant, right? That's been the journey. I say this: we are living and writing our case study every day.

[20:34]Maya: Huh! How do you get through that? I mean, yes, uncertainty is the only certainty in life, right? How do you figure out a way to stick to it?

[20:46]Pooja: For me, it was a lot to do with the people that I was doing this with. After every single presentation, we would go back to the hotel, hop on our computers, do what we needed to do from a day job perspective. And at dinner, I would constantly say this, as much work as this is, and it's going to be even more, if there's one set of people that I want to do it with, it's this group right here. We had this sense of camaraderie that was built, let's say, over the last couple of years, right, that just became stronger because we were spending so much time with each other. And it's beyond transition. I would say what we're going through now is transformation. And with transformation comes significant change.

I just feel like the learning is what keeps me going. It always has been my biggest driver. And I haven't stopped learning, not in any job. And when I did, I decided to pivot from accounting to HR because it was the same thing and I didn't feel like there was enough learning and growing. But that's what kept me going.

[21:52]Maya: Do you feel that learning and growing is one of the most important things in terms of being a strong leader?

[21:58]Pooja: One of, yes, absolutely.

[22:02]Maya: What are the others?

[22:06]Pooja: There’s so many, but I'll give you my favorites. For me, it's compassion. The way that I define HR is not your textbook HR. Really, I think of it as a Venn diagram. You've got your policies and compliance and legal things, but then you've got the other side, which is doing what's right for the people.

And when you can find what can work for both, that's where HR comes in. That's where the magic happens. That's how you build the right level of engagement and loyalty and motivate people, is when you find doing what's right for the people, but doing it in a way that's still ethical within your policy, within the laws and regulations. So, that's what I love about my job, is figuring out that sweet spot.

[22:47]Maya: What are the most challenging parts about your job?

[22:51]Pooja: The change. There's days, Maya, that you just take it as a gut punch, right? People, it's been a bit of a revolving door. And you need that, right? Some of the change is very healthy, you need it. But at a personal level, it can wear you down, 100%.

Also, the uncertainty. As much as I enjoy the change and the learning, it also brings with it a level of, “I don't know what's next.” And that can be scary, not knowing what tomorrow brings.

[23:23]Maya: But that got boring for you with accounting.

[23:25]Pooja: Exactly. So, this is the other extreme now, right? This is just the other extreme of it.

[23:30]Maya: Certainly.

[23:30]Pooja: You know, if you're not feeling that discomfort, also, you're not growing. And I say this to my kids all the time. You know that feeling that you have, like, “Oh, my God, I hate this so much,” it's because you're growing your muscles or you're building some sort of muscles along the way. And I recognize that that's what's causing the pain, is, “Oh, my god, I really don't know anything about this particular topic. I'm just going to have to lean in and dig in and learn it.”

[23:55]Maya: Yes. I tell my kids that, too, is, when you're stuck in that mud, you know that you’re going to get through that mud. And yeah, the mud is really, really hard to get through, but you have to. You've got to get through the mud in order to get to the other side of, you know, the beautiful, green valley. You know, it's what you got to do. And it's really hard to see, especially for kids, I think, to see the other side. And that's why it's really important to model that behavior for them.

[24:27]Pooja: There's a lot to be said for learning from failures, even more so than your successes.

[24:32]Maya: Yeah. So, what's next for you guys over there?

[24:36]Pooja: So, 2023 was all about acquisitions, right? Divested in October ’22. We bought a couple different companies last year. This year is all about becoming more stable as an organization. We've recently gone through a really big rework. And the idea there is to strengthen all of the corporate functions, strengthen our processes, strengthen the tools, the systems we have in place, strengthen our performance overall. And the goal is, of course, with any PE firm, to grow that bottom line and then to sell, right? So, that's going to be what's next in terms of the company.

[25:14]Maya: So, once that happens, because, yes, that's the natural progression, what are your hopes for yourself?

[25:21]Pooja: If I had a magic wand, I would do this all over again. Knowing what I know now, when you do a bit of a look-back, there's so many mistakes and there's so many good calls, too, on the other side of it. I could do this all over again and I would kill to do it all over again and again and again. I know, glutton for punishment, let's call it.

But professionally, it's been a really rewarding, I would say, last couple of years. It really puts you to the test when you're faced with so much uncertainty and, kind of, thrown in the fire a little bit, right?

[25:57]Maya: Yeah. Well, let’s talk about leadership a little bit because that's Professor Smith, you know, that's what he's known to be, best of the best, right? And organizational change and leadership and those sorts of things. So, what is your approach to coaching leaders?

[26:14]Pooja: So, to start with, I would say it's really important just to be true to yourself. Be authentic. Be who you are. Have extreme clarity in what you're saying and where you want to get to. Because if you're not clear, your team's not going to be clear. And then lead by example, show people what good looks like, and do it with compassion, empathy. But also, holding people to the right standards and to the highest standards, because you’re… I do the same for me. I do the same for my people. Accountability is extremely important. Do what you say, right?

I always feel like it's not rocket science. None of what I said is new. It's not profound. It's just, it's what you learn, I think. With your education and experience combined, you, kind of, carve out what works for you. And everything that I just described is, I would call that my own leadership style. Very vulnerable. I'm no different at work than I am at home. What you see is what you get. There's very little filters.

Also, very honest, right? If I bungled something, I will tell the team, “That was on me. I totally screwed that up. Let's move forward. Here's what I'm thinking in terms of damage control.” But the reverse is also true. If somebody screws something up, it's, “Hey, let's talk about it. What can we avoid… do to avoid it from happening again? And what can I do to support that next go-around so that the same failure or mistake doesn't happen again?”

[27:42]Maya: Right. So, if somebody is listening to this and they're where you were not that long ago and just don't feel that fire or that drive and are like, “You know, this is comfortable, but I'm just not sure,” what advice would you give them?

[28:00]Pooja: The advice I would give them is the advice that a really, really close friend to me gave me very recently. He had said, it's not about mental fortitude. I was like, “What?” He said, be your own best friend and give yourself advice, be kind to yourself, have self-love, and figure out what you want to do, which is very hard to do because you're so close to your own situation. So, it's hard to have that.

[28:29]Maya: Take a step back.

[28:30]Pooja: Take a step back and have that other mindset. But once you do that, it's amazing, the courage that you can build along the way.

[28:38]Maya: So, have the courage to step outside of that comfort zone. Love that.

[28:43]Pooja: It's never going to be the right time. You know, you said that earlier, like, just lean in. So, yeah, that's something, looking back, that I'm glad I did.

[28:52]Maya: For sure. If you don't take the risk, you don't get the reward.

[28:56]Pooja: Yep. And it may not always be the right call, and that's okay, right? Bumps and bruises and everything, learn from it, but move forward.

[29:05]Maya: It's helpful for folks to listen to these stories, because they're all so unique and similar in terms of just really having the faith and the drive and the vulnerability. Like you said, nobody likes to listen to themselves and nobody likes to see themselves. And yeah, those things are hard to do for me as well. But those are… that's how you stretch and that's how you grow. And that's what life is all about.

[29:33]Pooja: Yep, 100% agree.

[29:35]Maya: Well, Pooja, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for being on Owl Have You Know, and we look forward to seeing what the future holds for you.

[29:43]Pooja: Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[29:47]Maya: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Maya Pomroy, and Scott Gale.